Healing Discussion Podcast #9

Getting back together after only a few days to start digging into Blackrock Foundry healing.  We talk about both interesting healing details at some of the encounters in early Blackrock, and how they raise various general principles of setting up a healing team.


0:00 – Intro
1:05 – Set Bonus discussion Follow-up
>1:20 – Mistweaver 2pc (Serpent Stance) applies MS bonus to instants
>6:15 – Discipline Priest 2pc and value of a Penance tick
10:15 – our Blackrock Foundry WeakAuras project
13:00 – BRF Encounter thoughts
>13:45 – Gruul & understanding a damage profile
>21:40 – Oregorger & mitigating Acid Torrent
>26:30 – Flamebender Ka’graz & the value of stacking the raid for healing
>32:20 – Hans’gar & Franzok & Bloodlust/Heroism on a %hp-based fight (my post on use of Bloodlust)
>39:50 – Operator Thogar &  Bloodlust/Heroism on a time-based fight
>45:10 – Beastlord Darmac & dropping healers
>59:15 – Kromog & adding healers
1:08:10 – DPS vs Survivability, revisiting the Butcher discussion (at 41:30), and Versatility
1:16:15 – Outro

Previous episodes

16 thoughts on “Healing Discussion Podcast #9

  1. Dayani, you mentioned life cocoon in your examples of single target cds that could affect the overall damage the acid ability did to the raid.

    Does this actually work? Due to absorptions being relatively easy to apply to a tank for each acid (breath? oh god I think I’ve adopted your amnesia for ability names :( ) I assumed that only damage reduction cds affected the raid portion of the damage. Either way, I’ll check tonight.

    • Also, I was looking forward to you guys talking about the mana tea change during the last podcast, but you guys totally overlooked it! What gives D:!

    • It’s difficult to know exactly, and I haven’t yet found a raid that is patient enough to let me science this out properly. I do believe that absorption spells work to mitigate Acid Torrent damage, but there seems to be some strange minimum amount of damage that the raid will take regardless (even if all of the Acid Torrent damage is prevented on the tank by e.g. Hand of Protection), so it may not be a big deal ultimately.

      • I have no actual basis for this so please don’t take this as fact, but when I read “damage reduction and absorbs” for the acid torrent ability, I think it refers to tank only absorbs. The idea behind the mechanic is to use mitigation abilities on one person then that mitigation is shared around the raid. Some tanks or healers don’t have many damage reduction cooldowns like monks and use Guard or Life Cocoon as a cooldown. If I was designing the fight, I would count Guard, Shield barrier, Life Cocoon, maybe Blood Shield or Sacred Shield, but not stuff like PWS, or Clairty of Will which are not tank mitigation or cooldowns.

      • The Acid Torrent damage done to each ranged target = 175k + (Damage done to Tank)/3 (for Mythic, on other difficulties the base dmg of 175k will be lower). So anything that reduces the damage to the Tank, whether it be damage reductions or absorbs (including PWS and CoW), will reduce Acid Torrent damage on ranged.

        Note also that if you are going to use PW: Barrier, it is better to put it on the range group rather than the Tank (unless you have very few ranged), because although it will reduce damage on one less target, the damage reduction will be applied to the 175k, which won’t be the case if you Barrier the tank.

        • Thanks Klyde; I’d agree that AoE damage-reduction cooldowns make more sense to be used on the stacked ranged group rather than the tank, especially since we have things like Retched Blackrock to cope with too (which should be 100% avoidable, but often isn’t avoided 100% of the time).

          Looking forward to seeing the fight next week on Mythic and verifying your equation there. :)

  2. Love these podcasts guys. Regarding the BRF WeakAura project, have you found a way to display an aura to warn when Pin Down on Darmac is coming? The swirlies appear, but is there a specific cast?

    • AFAIK there’s nothing, you have to watch the swirl. I’m pretty sure it’s specifically intended for some abilities to not be solvable other than by watching the game world.

      However, good UI can still help. I have one audio alert in DBM at this fight (using the scheme I outlined in the Auras post where I only have have one category of warnings giving sounds), and it’s on Pin Down cast. So every time I hear a chime, I glance at my feet. Works great.

    • Reading again, maybe you were asking for just that–an alert for when it’s casting. That can be done in WA; what I meant above is that there’s no way to distinguish whether it’s on you or not (that I know of).

      I probably won’t add that to the package though, since it seems more natural to handle with a bossmod. And one of the points of this is project is to better separate things that bossmods are best for handling, things that auras are best for handling, and things that raid frames are best for handling. I may reconsider though, adding another category of alerts for non-player-specific warnings.

  3. Hamlet, I find the implications of versatility a very interesting question from a purely theoretical PoV due to the combination of a fairly straightforward question (what is gained and lost in the change of secondaries) with a far more situational and ambiguous question (which setup makes killing the boss easier). I ended doing some glorified napkin math that may interest you regarding what the numbers would be if you had all the dps i a raid change all their enchants to versatility. Note that this uses SimC single target numbers, so use the results with that caveat is mind.

    First off, the guesstimate made in the podcast of 5% DR to 2% DPS isn’t that far off the the average for all specs (~2%DR:1% DPS), but only at the BiS 17 mythic gear level. For nearly every spec as it stands now, the value of versatility improves relative to the other secondaries as your gear improves. Using the normal foundry gear setups the average trade-off falls to 1.66%DR:1%DPS.
    (Calculations: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VvukBdkxmeDtU1wfxN1nIdeSMG-cUf1CZd9XwCVrMaU/edit?usp=sharing)

    Maybe this trend won’t come into play for the top end guilds next tier, but if the third tier happens in this expansion some guilds may seriously experiment with dps having a versatility setup for some bosses unless there are some serious tuning changes to versatility.

    • Thanks, that’s pretty interesting. One note is that replacing your best stat with Versa is the worst case (I know it may be the most practical option due to enchants). Replacing your second-best stat is likely to look much better–and in many cases the choice of two typical items you have, one with Versa and one without, might be even closer to DPS-neutral.

      I think the biggest thing holding it back isn’t the numbers, but the lack of a sufficient variety of gear options.

  4. Hey guys

    I know this topic is fairly old, but now that the tier items have been out for ages, many people have their 2 set or 4 set, and alot of people have their own opinions about the value of the tiers, some that contradict what you guys seem to be saying in this podcast.

    I was hoping to ask you a broad question about the tiers now, because something strange has happened to me. My guild is progressing through heroic brf, (we are on blast furnace atm), and this week our guild leader decided to take an hour to do the tier bosses on normal. She said that we were doing this because people need the tier. I was supprised, because I thought that while the tier is pretty cool for most classes I would think that not many of them would need 4 piece so badly that they would sacrifice a heroic item for a normal one. I asked what these classes were that needed their tier so strongly, and she said all of them.

    I play resto druid, so I feel like the 4 piece is not good enough to use some normal pieces. However having used the 2 piece bonus for a while now, I actually feel its very useful, and that while its not a large throughput increase, its provides some instant healing that was missing from the druid toolkit. I feel very powerful with it.

    Anyway my question is this: Are the tiers worth taking 1, 2, 3 or even 4 pieces from a lower raiding difficulty? I was assured several times that 4 piece is worth at least 1 normal piece, no matter what class you are. I dont believe that but I am curious how “close to true” that is.

    And a followup question: After having some experience with your tier items, would you change the opinions you had of them in the podcast? I’m not expecting a lot of detail here, I’m sure you could make an entirely new podcast about this.

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